Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the mic'd up show, season four, where every mortgage has a story. And today our guest, owen Lee is CEO of Success Mortgage, founded in 2002. He also is on a journey. For those that follow our podcast, we try to speak to our audience which is leaders in the lending industry, leaders in Prop Tech and Fintech Trademark trying.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: To explore whether they have a fit.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: In the mortgage industry. And really any loan officer who's feeling like an entrepreneur every day going to work, or a processor or an underwriter who we need to make sure it gets that love. We try to send the message of what happens out there at the conference scene in the mortgage industry because once you get there, you realize it's not as big as you think and the leaders are very accessible. But a lot of people don't get to go. Whether it's an affordability thing, whether in our industry the best don't want to be sent because they'll get recruited because they are the best. And so we try to bring to you a window into that scene and I think we have an amazing guest here because he is going to be a leader in that scene. He's on the three year. I don't want to get it wrong, Owen, but thank you for coming on here. Does it go vice? So you're more packed chair, then you go vice chair, then chair elect and then chair. Is that, is that how it is?
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. So the NBA is particular in how they do that and it's a little counterintuitive to what most people think. I, I was the more PAC chair for the 2023, 2024 election cycle. So I was basically the chief fund political fundraiser for the NBA for two years.
That is, was a great job asking people for money in 2022 and 2023.
But yeah, and so now the way the ladder goes is vice chair, chair elect is really the, the vice chair as you would think about it like in a governmental term, and then the chair and then you do one more year as the chair emeritus before you roll, roll off. But all the activity is really concentrated in the first three years.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Very cool. I've always wanted to know that. I've been going to mortgage Banker conferences since 2013. But your first taste in the mortgage industry was following your father around in that, that golden jacket, right when brokers or the realtor industry was run a little bit different. And your father, I think taught you a lot about how to lead, whether it's from the ground up or everybody matters. Can you talk about how that's been in your culture at Success and how you plan on bringing that into maybe the Mortgage Bankers association as well.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Sure, sure, I'd love to. And thanks for reminding me of that story. What Mike is referring to is I told him a story, or maybe I told it from the stage once. I tell this occasionally that when I was a little kid, when I was 6, 7, 8 years old, my father was a Century 21 broker. And back then, Century 21 brokers used to wear gold coats. That was their symbol, a golden blazer. And they used to advertise it on TV and in print magazines. And this is in the late 1970s, early 1980s. And I joke that my dad drove me to school. He and I both wore uniforms. I wore the uniform of St. Fabian Catholic School, and he wore the gold coat. And so anyway, but. But yeah, my dad has been a huge influence on me just in terms of 60 years in the real estate industry. He's 89 years old, still comes to work every day when he's not snowbirding in Florida. Our office is in Plymouth, Michigan. And it just keeps him young. But he has a very inclusive and very thankful heart. And it really reflects in the way he deals with people. I would say for the last decade, his favorite thing about this company is the people, the relationships, and the specialness that. That he's able to create. He and I founded this company together on May 1st of 2002. And it was with that thought process that we came up with our name, Success Mortgage Partners. You know, we like to say success is what we're about, mortgages is what we do, and partners is how we treat everybody. And it's been. Been very good. And when you kind of extrapolate that to the NBA, the MBA at its core, and why I'm so attracted to, you know, to it as an organization is it's a group where the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts. Right? We're all in partnership with one another. Our company in Plymouth, Michigan, Success Mortgage Partners. 625 employees. Right. Are. Are we a very big, small company or a very small, big company? I. I don't really know. I have a small company heart, so I like to think of us as a large, small company, but very hard to get something done in Washington, D.C. or in state capitals across the country or with gigantic regulatory bodies just acting as ourselves. But when we band together, when we have that partnership and we have that advocacy mindset, all of us banding together, it's really easier to get Things done in Washington, D.C. it's almost impossible acting alone, you know, unless maybe you're one of the top 10 lenders in the country.
But the NBA really does a lot of advocacy and unfortunately, a lot of it goes unnoticed and unrecognized. And I think one of the things we're bad at, and when I say we in that context, I'm speaking on behalf of the NBA, is we need to do a better job of telling the industry all of the things that we do for the industry and all of the victories that we have, because I don't think they're often noticed, you know, and we need to do a better job of communicating what those are because they're really quite impressive.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: How does that translate when, in as far as scalability, Owen, when, when leading your small, big company or your big, small company.
Right. I mean, you're, you're, when you're leading successful mortgage partners, that's one thing. However, leadership on a huge level. Now, you're not just leading by example within your own company, you're also leading by example to the industry itself. And you mentioned that, that we need to do a better job. So how do you scale that to say, this is what it's, what's, what I've done to be successful leading my company? This is how I'm translating it in leadership so that others within the industry, whether originators or executives, can take a larger role in participation with the MBA and its advocacy of the industry in itself.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: So a couple of things. I'll, I'll take that as, you know, in two parts is, you know, one, how do I do it? What's my mindset, how do I apply it? And you, you know, and then kind of other industry participants. I think the characteristics of leadership are the same whether you're in a small organization, medium sized organization, or large organization. Right.
It to me starts by showing up, starts by having a great work ethic and telling the truth 1000% of the time, even if it's unpopular or even if it's, you know, not what people want to hear. We often say that people that care about you tell you the truth. People that don't care about you tell you what you want to hear because it's way easier to tell you what you want to hear all the time. Right. And so, you know, it's, it's hard work. It's telling the truth, it's keeping your word, and it's, it's doing everything you can every day. I always tell people that I think we work In a very special industry, we get to, you know, we're not brain surgeons. We're not rocket people. We're not.
That wasn't a play on rocket mortgage. I mean like rocket scientists or, you know, whatever.
But we get to do something that's really, really cool. We get to help people acquire what for 98% of the people is the greatest asset they will ever own and the greatest wealth creator for their family that they will ever have.
Most people don't get to do that kind of thing. And you know, I always say when I'm talking to loan officers, I, I stole this line from my very dear friend Dale Vermillion. But every call is an opportunity to change somebody's life.
And that is not the case in most industries.
I used to practice law. I'm a lawyer by trade. I worked for a gigantic insurance defense firm.
I started a title insurance agency with my wife. That's how I got into this business. You know, those two industries don't have the opportunity to change somebody's life with every phone call, but ours does.
But, but getting back to that leadership thing, you know, Michael, I think those lessons are the same whether you're at a 600 person organization or the NBA. When you add up all the employees of the member companies, it's well over 200,000.
Hard work, show up, tell the truth, be honest, follow through on your word. You know, those things play well regardless of the size of your audience. And you know, when it, when it comes to other members of the industry as it relates to the NBA, the best thing we can do is show up, you know, Washington, D.C. for those that don't spend a lot of time, there is not a normal town.
And you know, I, sorry, I don't say that with love. And that is a town where you have to show up and fight for what's yours, so to speak. And I don't mean in a bad way, but we are basically one sixth of the US economy. And there are 535 members of Congress and I would say 80 to 90% of them don't understand how our industry runs. And I don't blame them for that. Right. They've got to go from national defense to border security to budget to health care to. Right, I get it. I'm not. That's not a critical statement. That's a factual statement. And so if we don't show up and educate them, they will be educated on our issues by somebody else.
And that's bad for our industry.
And so what we need to do is show up. We need to pay attention because there is more change going on right now.
My friend Bill Kilmer, the political director at the NBA, told me when I was more PAC chair that my first year on the ladder, my vice chair chair year would probably be easier than when I was more pack chair. And that's not the case because of everything that's going on in Washington D.C. right now. So we've got to pay attention. We've got to show up. It's vital. It's absolutely vital.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: I'll make a quick comment and then I'll ask a question. And this has to go with your. Your past too. But I'm getting better at my biting my tongue so Mike and I can alternate. I cannot stress to people enough. As someone that's been to over 100 mortgage conferences, all of the mortgage conferences are. You learn a lot when you attend. Sometimes it could be a rat race because you're. You got all these meetings and you're moving around and trying to participate. Everybody really doesn't understand anything, I guess, until you've been to an advocacy conference. Because that is such a different vibe. It's everybody working together like you said previously, Owen, and then you saying today it really is about people showing up. And it's one of those experiences that you really don't know until you go through it. And on the plane ride home, this wave of wow, that felt powerful. Wow. We are stronger together.
We'll say all of us in a shout out to Greg Sher. But it's that mantra of everybody isn't outside meeting with vendors. They're all in and they're learning what's the best for our industry. Then you're hearing speakers that are speaking in a tone that is coming from a decision maker, somebody that you have to prepare to advocate. And the, the politicians you learn after maybe the second time, they're not really even the ones that you need to convince. It's their legislative assistance. You know, somebody that's 22 years old, believe it or not, you need to show up and have something spark in their head that they help senator or congress person. But it's a lot harder to do it if there's one person in the room and then you know the one you're against. Has 25 come in.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: So advocacy.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: One of my favorite conferences. This will be my 10th in the last 11 years. We did a great show with Ryan Black and we did a promo for it. We'll be playing up here soon.
I do want to talk about how you have the Truth isn't always popular, but it is always right. You have that up on one of your walls. I think that's the difference. Loan office say, am I going to be replaced by AI? And I think the one thing AI can't tell very well is the truth. And the truth in a way that sometimes people need to hear as they're going for a mortgage. You can't afford that house or you, I need to tell you right away you're not going to qualify, even though I thought you were. I'm not going to lead you along. I'm a human. I can humanize it for you. I understand success. Mortgage Partners is one of the pinnacle companies in this industry because they're the type of company, like everything that helped me grow. You know, they work with tech vendors. They don't build everything in house. They are local in the community. They're not just, you know, trigger leading consumer direct. How are you sending that message to your team, loan officers and operations that over the next five years know local matters and that's where we're going to win and we're going to tell the truth there. Is that the plan or is there some digital plan to go up against those, those people across the street or wherever they are in the state?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Well, I'm very proud of the gigantic footprint that the Detroit mortgage presence has. So I hope to play an extremely small role in that. But, but just to kind of step back for a second, I do believe that, that the truth is not always popular, but it is always right. If you leading with the truth, you're not being respectful to the person to whom you're speaking or the person to whom you're dealing with, you're actually wasting that person's time and you're wasting your own time, too. So that's a, that's a huge, that thought process is a huge guiding light for me in my career. And hopefully that's something that people recognize, you know, as it gets to AI, I, I would say this. You know, we're. I, I don't believe that we are going to turn into travel agents. Right. I get that question all the time. And one of the things that's standing in the way of that is actually, you know, regulation and licensing. Right.
So a loan officer has to have a license. If you're going to quote an interest rate, if you're going to talk about income and underwriting and use trigger terms and, and all these things. Right. So I don't think they're going to stand up in the state capitals of like my home state in Lansing, Michigan or in Tallahassee, Florida, Austin, Texas, Sacramento, California and say let's, let's have AI avatar loan officers, however, pause and underline the word however.
What AI is going to do is let a smaller group of people talk to a larger group of people much quicker and faster.
And the lead generation ideas and things that I've seen for this are fantastic. So there. I do believe, although I don't believe loan officers are going to be replaced by AI without significant and meaningful regulatory change, which I don't think is coming anytime soon. But it will alter the industry landscape permanently. Those that adopt that technology and adopt what becomes available to them as tools will win and win at a high level. And those that do not will lose.
And I think those that do not, they won't even realize they're losing. Their pool of available loans will just shrink by 2 to 4% per month because people that are adopting technology will pick off the leads and the borrowers before the people that aren't adopting technology even realize that they're not getting the same at bats, if you will, that they used to. 2 to 4% doesn't sound like a lot, but if you do that over a two year period of time, you just lost 2/3 of your at bat. So you're going to end up working 40% harder to earn 40% less. And that algebra is not good for anybody.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: No, that's amazing because we kind of fast forwarded that with the increase in interest rates over the last few years and. Right. We saw attrition in originators, we've seen attrition in support staff.
What do you think are some of, you know, and it's hard to be a leader when, when you're going through that. I mean there's, as an industry there's been some loss and, and I think that to make that type of change is challenging.
So what do you think it takes that for you as a leader? What are some of the difficult decisions that you may have made? You know, whether it's in technology or whether it's in operations? What are some of the difficult decisions that you've made in leadership that provided you with some valuable lessons over the last few years that you'd be able to share that. Hey, you know what, this is what I learned, but I think this is how we, this is how we become better on the other side.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Right. Well, I think, you know, going back to that the truth is not always popular, but it is always right. You have to tell yourself the truth Also, it's, it's one of those things, it's not just for others, but it's also for looking in the mirror. And I learned some very valuable lessons in the, in the great crash of, you know, 2007, 2008, 2009 and when, when you think, you know. I often tell this story. I'm from Detroit. So we relate everything back to the automobile industry. We just can't help it.
But for the most of the second half of the 20th century, from 1950 to the year 2000, General Motors was the largest corporation in the world. The largest and richest corporation in the world. They were Apple like they were Google, right? Insert your own tech company and they didn't tell themselves the truth and they didn't make the changes necessary in order to adapt to the economy. And the largest corporation in the world for the better part of 50 years went bankrupt in 2008.
So no matter how big or how rich you are or you think you are, you cannot protect your company and, or protect everyone with whom you work from what's happening in the larger economy.
So you've got to tell yourself the truth. You've got to adjust your business to what's happening, right? That's a very, very difficult things to do. But if you lose money or you lose too much money, warehouse banks won't lend you money, investors won't buy your loans.
Fannie, Freddie, fha, Virginia they won't do business with you. So you know, you just have to do that math and you have to do that calculus. It's not fun.
So you have to work both ends of the angle, right? You gotta do everything you can to capture every penny of revenue you possibly can. And you also have to take a look at your cost side, you know, and that's, you know, absolutely every spend that you have it, you know, certainly, unfortunately, you know, you got to take a look at headcount. But also, you know, in our company we have a running list of the 50 biggest checks that we write every single month. And we constantly go through that 50 biggest checklist to see if there's anything we can do to lower those checks. And it's, you know, it's kind of become a joke, but we have small victories and raffle off, you know, gift cards and, and stuff like that. But you really develop a culture around it. And suddenly your culture becomes having a very well run organization.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Probably something that rhymes with fork number let's.
I think the industry though is at a pivotal point where they have cut cost, right? They have gotten things out under control and there are a lot of great technologies out there and they still need to remind themselves to take chances. And I think one thing I've noticed that I'm going to post about I've noticed the industry's gotten away from piloting ideas and things. It has to be enterprise. My CMO has to delegate it. So I'm going to ask you some questions. Not really specifically about that, but about delegating on the other side. But in honor of all those great tech vendors out there, we we have a quick commercial Want to take your business to the next level? As a longtime trusted mortgage service provider, Mortgage Connect works with some of the largest lenders, servicers and institutional investors providing cutting edge solutions for everything from title closing, escrow and default to capital markets and risk solutions. Mortgage Connect brings it all to the table, redefining mortgage lending with innovative digital solutions that can elevate your bottom line.
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[00:24:17] Speaker A: Also who they are.
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[00:24:47] Speaker A: When I heard your General Motors story I I thought of a, a good Owen Lee quote. You can't sugarcoat the difficult stuff knowing there's going to be difficult stuff. People typically want to micromanage that. And I've noticed you even referenced Allison nine years ago. Knew you were going to bet on her. And I think maybe it's just the age I am, but when I, you know, when I look at you looking young, I think it's very difficult for people in success to, to delegate leadership and, and sort of let someone else run the, the day to day operation. And you did it earlier and more often and, and you were rewarded with success and now I see you doing it with the videos wasn't something you were always doing. And now you're almost scaling yourself again for the, for the Mortgage Bankers association and getting some news out there that is needed. Like it doesn't always segue down.
Can you just teach us some lessons on that first moment of like, oh, geez, I'm gonna give up running this. You know, that was kind of my DNA and, and the rewards of actually what happens when you do let go a little bit.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: I think what Mike is referring to is Allison Johnston, our president, who's a CMB past president of the Michigan Mortgage Lenders Association. Super, super talented professional woman that I'm lucky enough to work with every single day. Our company permanently got better the day she joined our company and it was a great day in the history of our company.
Yeah. Alison runs our day to day operations and you know, with, with the, with the opportunity, the platform and the responsibility that I have with the Mortgage Bankers Association, I would have never been able to accept that opportunity without knowing that I have a rock solid team back in our, our home offices in Michigan to run that company. Allison does a job that is wonderful. I also have a lady named Madonna Blanchard who's an attorney that's been with us for years and years who helps on some other things as well. And I would never be able to, to do my job at the NBA without being fortunate enough to work with those two ladies. They're, they're top, top notch.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: And like when you made that moment where you were going to give up running, the knowing difficult stuff was coming.
Were you itching at the, the desk saying, all right, don't, don't walk down there or it was that just natural for you to be able to do.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: It's, I'm not going to lie, it's hard right to, to, you know, you have to let go. And you know, in our company, what we do is they are empowered to make very big decisions. And we actually have a meeting once a month where we talk about those biggest decisions and you know, I tell them what I would have done and most of the time it's the same. Sometimes it's a little bit different. Sometimes they make better decisions than I might have, but we talk about it behind closed doors and then hopefully the idea is that the next decision and the next decision will come closer, you know, to what we all would have done collectively or depending upon the topic, what I would have done. But you have to remember, you know, one of the lessons that I learned, we were talking about my dad earlier. One of the Lessons that I learned from him is if you have a person in your organization that everything has to flow through, right? They're. They're going to act as a governor or a restrictor of growth, because one person can only do so much. So if you have that person in your office that everything has to run through them, even though they're vitally important, super smart and whatever, they. They could actually be restricting your growth.
And sometimes as entrepreneurs, sometimes as CEOs, people that founded the companies or whatever, that. That person is the person you see when you're looking in the mirror, you know, and so you have to have the ability to say, you know, in my organization, here you go, Allison. Here you go, Madonna. We. We have other people too, in. In your organization. Here you go, chief operations officer, CFO or, you know, whatever the heck it might be, and empower those people to run parts of your organization.
Hopefully, if I'm doing my job properly, then I can use that time to grow and strengthen our organization in other ways.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: That's great.
[00:29:47] Speaker C: How do you keep everybody motivated? You know, the way that you describe your team makes you. You sound like the head coach of a football team. Allison is your quarterback, right? And, you know, at the University of Notre Dame, they have. They have a sign when the football players are coming down and play like a champion, they hit that. They hit the sign to help them motivate. What is a. One of the leadership things that you might do to play like a champion in your experience as a leader, as the head coach of the team? I mean, I love that you empower them, but is there something that is part of that company culture, it says that. I mean, not everybody knows that they're empowered. So how. How do they know that in your leadership? So. Because not everybody. Because we want to assume that everybody can read our mind, but originators are famous for people assuming they can read their mind when they really can't. So how does. How does everybody get. Know that they're empowered to do that?
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Well, I think a couple of things. First of all, you know, you have to get everybody involved. You have to have great communication inside of your organization, and you have to tell people that, right? So one of the things that. That we do is, you know, we have daily meetings, extremely limited in time. This is one thing I learned also from my friend Dale Vermillion. You have morning huddles, 15 minutes. The morning huddle can go nine minutes. It can never go 16 minutes. If you're not done after 15 minutes, you stop. You know, you communicate Your goals. You let the people know what they're empowered to do. And when they take care of those things, you reward them for it and you reward them publicly.
We often publish monthly or quarterly sales goals or operational goals.
Allison has a monthly operations meeting where, you know, she announces the core values we have. Everybody in our organization understands what their service level agreements are and what, what the corporation and the people with whom they're working expect. And, and they get that in written form and sign it on the day that they start. And we try and have great communication. We try and have no confusion about what the goals are, no confusion about what people are empowered to do. We talk and communicate. And Michael, before I wrap up this answer to my question, I got to tell you, you with that Notre Dame reference in the beginning you made every. I am the only person in my immediate family that did not go to Notre Dame. My wife and all three of my kids went there. I went to Villanova in Philadelphia, and I'm extremely proud to have attended that school. But I put up with a lot of Notre Dame stuff in my house. And my kids, I'm gonna have to show them this. They're gonna be so happy with that reference. I, I just don't know how that's gonna go over. So. Thank you for making their day. I guess I would say.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know if I could follow that up. Have you been to a Notre Dame game in the last couple years?
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah, we go. We go to about two or three a year. It's.
My wife went there, all three of my kids. My youngest is a current junior there. So we were, we were at the last one, the playoff home game against Indiana. It's. It's a fun environment for our family. Yeah.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: And it's certainly a experience based on tradition at the band playing, you know, out there at the. I think it's the library steps before being a family company. I'll make a nice segue here.
And putting families into homes. Where do you see success mortgage partners going as far as legacy goes? And how do you see it, you know, in. In general compared to other companies in the industry 10, 15 years down the road?
[00:33:46] Speaker B: So I think our company has a great opportunity to grow. And the reason why it has a great opportunity to grow is because of the people that were already lucky enough to have on our team.
We've got tremendous originators, we've got tremendous leaders.
You know, oddly enough, if you look at our org chart, all. All but three of my department heads, and I include myself as one of the department heads are female and they're absolutely outstanding. We're super proud to have them. And the other thing I would say, in addition to great originators, I think we've got a great handle on technology, which is, which is partially because we put a lot of effort and energy and investment of time and money into that. But it's all about giving the best possible platform to the originator so that they can go out and be successful within our system. It's about force, multiplying their tools, getting them in front of as many borrowers as possible and empowering them, giving them every tool they need in order to be successful. You know, and the one thing about legacy, I'll say the, the, the biggest legacy thing within our company is we have our own 501c3 charity called Partners Making a Difference. We've raised over a million dollars over the past few years to give back in our community folds of honor. We've been able to donate well over 150,000 to them.
You know, we helped build a childhood cancer camp in South Carolina.
There's a camp in.
My youngest child, Declan has type 1 diabetes. The largest type 1 diabetes camp for children in the world is called Camp Sweeney in Texas. We've donated over $200,000 to Camp Sweeney. Well over 100 kids have gone to that camp for free because of the generosity of the people with whom I'm lucky enough to work. And that is probably our biggest and proudest legacy as well as the homes and the generational wealth that we're lucky enough to help people create with the job that we do.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: That's really special. You know, part of the show is to, we think eventually help with loan officer recruitment in the same way the elections happen, right? Like this recent election showed that mainstream media is not as effective as long form content. Podcasts like this get to see the leaders and not just deal with a recruiter. And I think originators will start to get back to making sure they're double checking the why, you know, why are they joining a company? And that last part, your leadership is great throughout the call. We have many great leaders on here. But that extra oomph on giving back to the community and to causes, really special. Glad you you brought that up.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: It's, it's. I tell you what, when we do our annual sales gala in November, we fly everybody into one city. It's black tie, cocktail dress, whatever. It's fantastic. We already have, we always have the speaker from that night's honored charity come. And for the last Two years we've had spouses of fallen service members from the Folds of Honor organization in just not a dry eye in the house. And it's just something that gives you goosebumps. It's one of my most fortunate nights of the year and it's great. And I would also be remiss if I didn't mention for a second, MBA Opens Doors is a charity that's received hundreds of thousands of dollars of donations from our 501 C3 charity.
That is an unbelievable organization. Deb, still at Pulte Mortgage, does a great job heading that up. I'm fortunate enough to be on the board of directors. And what they do is they make mortgage payments and rental payments for families where their children have to go to the children's hospital for extended stays. And one of the stressors is how am I going to pay for all this? Opens Doors makes a mortgage payment or makes a rental payment on their behalf. It's a really cool connection to what we actually do every day. And the MBA corporate side picks up 100% of the administrative expenses of Opens Doors. So if anybody ever donates a dollar to Opens Doors, a hundred pennies of that dollar go to help a needy family and a needy child.
[00:38:39] Speaker A: It's one of my favorite reasons to register for a mortgage bankers conference. You have that opening day and, and why wouldn't you go there? There's plenty of events later on that night and it's really special to see video they play.
Yeah. Changing Lives.
[00:38:54] Speaker B: That's, that's really better. You better bring your Kleenex when they, when they debut that video every year. Yeah.
[00:39:02] Speaker C: Can we transition a little bit, I mean, into talking about the CFPB in this last quarter hour? You know, we, I've seen, I've seen the, some of the videos and of course we know what's going on in the news with the, the CFPB.
[00:39:18] Speaker B: It.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: 3 weeks ago I thought the CFPB was going to be completely wound down by the end of the year.
Two weeks ago I thought, okay, well maybe it's got some life support. This week I'm like, okay, well maybe ACT actually has some legs.
Can you speak to what, in your opinion, what do you think the CFPB could be doing better and what the MBA and the CFPB could do working together conjunctively to help the industry for mortgage lending.
[00:39:50] Speaker B: Sure. So for everybody listening, I'll just take one half a step back. What Michael's alluding to is I post quite a bit on LinkedIn about the CFPB and about the FHFA and whatnot. So if anybody's interested in hearing those updates, hit me up on LinkedIn. But to get to that CFPB question specifically. So, okay, so Congress created the cfpb. So Congress is the only one that can dissolve it, the Executive branch. Donald Trump cannot dissolve the cfpb. Okay? Now they can starve it of money and they can starve it of employees and they can, they could effectively probably give it a four year nap, but they can't destroy it without Congress, without Congress. So, and what you have to understand is we need the cfpb. And, and that sounds like a strange comment. Okay, I'm not trying to be political or anything like that, but you have to understand how Washington works. And this folds right back into.
I did a LinkedIn post on this and it was the most watched one I ever had. I had no idea that people didn't know this.
But it's, it's not intuitive if you're not from and around Washington D.C. but there's a rulemaking process for the federal government and it takes about 18 months under the best of circumstances to, to get a new rule done. You have to have notice and then you have to have a comment period, and then you have to have a period where you discern the comments. Then you have to publish a rule, then you have to take more comments, then you have to publish a rule, then there's a waiting period and then it goes into effect. Takes about 18 months, practically speaking, maybe two years. Right? So we've got all these rules and we have them in place. They don't just go away. We need the CFPB rulemakers to come back to work to change those rules.
Otherwise they're going to stay in effect.
[00:41:58] Speaker A: Otherwise.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: This is Washington D.C. right? One political viewpoint's in power now. Four years from now, eight years from now, 12 years from now, whatever pendulum will swing back the other way. Somebody else will be in power and guess what? They will enforce those rules and the statute of limitations will not have run out on the, you know your previous activity when you thought those rules were dead and they really weren't.
So you have to, you have to get the rules changed. And if they starve the CFPB of money and employees and there's no rulemakers there, we can't change the rules. At best you get a vacation.
Right? And so we need to intelligently show up. We need to heavily lobby the cfpb. We need to get the, the rules that we want change around Loan officer compensation around respite section 8, which is your, your MSAs, your preferred providers, your joint ventures.
UDAP is, is a huge subjective issue that we need to bring. You know, there's some good stuff, some bad stuff. Objectivity is what we need, not subjectivity. And if we just, you know, Elon Musk famously CFPB rip. You know, I chuckled when I read it. I actually almost spit my coffee out on to the kitchen table when I saw it. And my wife's like, what the hell is going on?
Anyway, it's. We, we need to show up, we need to advocate and we need the CFPB around to help us change the rules. We can't do it by ourselves.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: I'm glad you said that because. And now that I, you were on our show, I've been following your LinkedIn. I think more people need to know it exists because it really is the best mouthpiece of what the NBA. The NBA does an incredible job in your email inbox. But in our world of moving around, it's moving faster than ever right now. It's hard.
[00:44:05] Speaker B: We need to do. Yeah, you're 100% right. NBA needs to do a better job. I, I take ownership of that partially right.
We need to do a better job of telling everybody what we're doing because we're really advocating for them and we're producing great results. We don't do a good enough job of explaining it well.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: And your videos are perfect because right now like things have never moved this fast ever, right? So by the time the email comes and I, I say the CFPB to me is and obviously regulation through enforcement, that's. We spent nine years telling them how nuts this is, but it's still, it reminds me now that I have kids, you know, I bring the 3 year old daughter down to the playground and 12 year old boys are running up the, the slide up to my knees like almost banging into her, like obviously there's nothing I can do to a 12 year old, you know, so there's, I'm just getting. And at least when there's rules up there that say no one over the age of 10 can be in here, I can say hey, you know, get, you get your, get out of here or tell the parent what's going on here. How old? When you have no rules, there are people that will work in that playground and start to do things that just make it harder and they're going to be winners and losers without the cfpb. Which is okay under maybe other circumstances, but I think At a time where Banny and Freddy may be going to conservatorship, you don't want them both happening at the same time because while the industry had quarters that were unprofitable, they were making $7 billion a quarter. So they're going to be somebody that everybody's trying to get and the winners are going to be trying to use it. And if there's only five people, it's a lot easier to try and win that game. When there's 100 employees, it becomes difficult. But to hear you're saying the same thing. Great voice. I already know you're big on the advocacy conference. I know we couldn't do it without more pack. We're going a little bit technically over here because we want to jump on something else without running out of time. So I guess, do you want to give a final plug for the advocacy conference where people can actually come down and run into you and see you myself, Michael, down there?
[00:46:14] Speaker B: I would. So the advocacy conference this year is the 8th and 9th in Washington D.C. 8th and 9th of April. What everybody does is we come together the first day we hear from elected officials and regulators. We're in Washington, D.C.
they talk to us, we talk to them. And they're people typically Senate Banking Committee, House Financial Services, people that have regulatory control and the regulators of our industry. We open a dialogue and talk to them. Day two is basically, you know, the First Amendment in action. I don't want to go over the top, but that's really what it is. Last year we had 355 people storm Capitol Hill for 256 meetings with the members of Congress to talk to them about our issues. And if we don't show up, like I said, if we don't do the education, others will educate those congresspeople on our behalf. And let me tell you, I'll just tell you a quick story. Senator Brett, Senator from Alabama came to talk to us last year. I had to introduce her and I did a little interview with her because I was the Moore PAC chair. I spent 10 minutes behind the stage with her before we got introduced. You know, rare opportunity to spend 10 minutes talking to a US senator. She was asking me questions about our organization and I said, yeah, we have 355 people here. We have 254 meetings on the Hill tomorrow. She put her hand on my shoulder and she goes, wait a minute. She goes, there's 355, 254 meetings tomorrow on Capitol Hill. I said, yes. And she just kind of paused for a minute she said, that's amazing.
And I guarantee you when she walked out of that appearance in front of us, she had a totally different viewpoint of our issues in our organization as much more formidable on behalf of our industry than she did when she walked in. There's no replacement for that. We have to show up. Please, if you could all and you're if with, you're with the company, bring two or three people. You don't have to bring just one. Four people from my organization went last year. I think four or five are going to go this year.
It's, it's some of the most important hours of your work year. I guarantee it. We have to advocate for our industry.
[00:48:42] Speaker A: It's time to get your why back. And there's no place, there's no retreat better to go than there. I can't stress it enough either. Owen, thank you for coming on. We really appreciate it.
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