Call, Connect, Community ft. Alec Hanson

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Mic'd up show. This is season four where every mortgage has a story. And we are the ultimate hub where the hidden stories behind the mortgage industry come to life. So I'm Michael Kelleher, co host Michael Zhao is in Germany. So this episode I'll be doing it myself. Diving into the entrepreneurial spirit which our guest today talks a lot about how our industry is tailor made for the entrepreneur. We get into that, we'll get into strategic insights and breakthrough innovations that build the world's greatest mortgage companies. So whether you're into advancing your career, scouting for industry leaders or exploring opportunities in fintech and prop tech, give us a call, you're in the right place. Get ready to unlock the story behind every mortgage. And Alec Hansen, who is our guest today, has had an illustrious career where you started as an associate at back in the day when they used to have mortgage companies in strip malls. Worked his way up through. You'll hear some stories of how he was able to get coached fast because he was willing to listen and go do it. Became a in 2004 right out of the gates, a rookie of the year. Scotsman's guide built that for years and years as a top 200 and alumni of something. If you're listening, in our industry it ranks the top loan officers by production. It is very difficult to get in there but once you get in there, usually have a good book of business and a way to stay in there. And then Alec went on to build a team so he could help other loan officers and other groups replicate what he was able to do and coach. And I, I guess I could keep going, but that was eight states. Then you became chief marketing officer of Loan Depot. Very cool part. And now you are in strategic growth as you guys are planning on growing even more. And we can, we could, we could talk about that. But I wanted to talk right away. It's probably been two years of, of asking to come on the show here and, and you've been very gracious. Some people don't always answer for two years. You've always said let me get back to you. Yes, appreciate the followup. And that is kind of how showing up works. Right. Can you talk about your story that you like to tell people about this litigator turned real estate agent, Don, and how you were showing up and how it paid off for you? [00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, Mike, first, thanks for, thanks for carving time for me. I appreciate it. I know you said you've been following up for two years, but it's. You Know that, that, that diligence is what makes the world turn. And it's funny, my story with dawn is, is a microcosm or a little view into many parts of the story of my career. You know, I was told early on that the only way I was going to get business in 2003 and four, right when I broke off and was my own loan officer was going to be connectedly, directly connected to the number of realtors that I see face to face every day. It was a very old school belly to belly strategy. And what's funny is 2003 and four, when I got into the industry and fully started, you know, there was a refinance boom, people getting into call centers. The pay option arm was a thing. People were doing three year hard prepays and, and making a lot of money in these call centers. And I had no clue that was even part of the business. I was just told to go meet realtors and drive around. So I got really lucky with the right mentorship. But I went to Don's open house on a broker preview on a Thursday, and he's one of the old school guys that actually would host or be inside his own listings. And then on Friday he had another listing. The guy had 60% market share on Balboa island back in the day. And he probably still does. He's a monster. And then on Saturday was, you know, open houses, so I went out again. And then Sunday was open houses one to four, so I went out again. And I remember being such a terrified, insecure, introverted loan officer, which is still part of who I am. And going in there four days in a row to see Don. And he asked me if I'm going to come to every single one of his open houses. Like, are you going to keep showing up? And I was terrified. I was like, oh my God, he's going to tell me to never talk to him again. He's going to tell me to leave. He's going to tell me stop bothering him. You know, I'm 23, I'm trying to figure it out. This guy's been in the business for a long time. I didn't know he was an ex litigating attorney until later. And this was a second career. And he got in there, you know, all these things, but he was gracious with me. He told me to, to. He kind of laughed when I said yes, is that okay? Can I keep showing up? He's like, yeah. And he said it took him, his last loan officer, two years to earn his business and to Keep showing up. And so for six months, I never missed an open house that he had. I never missed a broker preview. I sent him a mailer every single month that I kind of put together to kind of cobble together some kind of information about products or whatever. Every Monday, after I saw him at previews and open houses, I sent him a handwritten thank you card, which. Which is what I did to every agent, saying, great to meet you. I'm here to help. And six months to the day, on a Sunday, I had him programmed into my phone and said, in fact, I still have a bunch of realtors with an R in front of their name in my phone, like R Dash, like Mike. So I knew that they were realtors. And he calls me, and I freak out, and I answer the phone, and he was notorious for this. He had a customer in his office, and he's like, hey, the Johnsons or whatever their name were, they want to write an offer, and they need a prequel. Are you able to get one done for me right now, today? And this was last week? No, this was. This was. This was six months after prospecting Don every single. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Oh, after meeting him. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. So this is six months after meeting him to the day, going into every open house, he calls me with a client, and I. I lose my mind. You know, I. He never took a business meeting with me. He just called me. And so I. Of course, I said, yes, I can pre call them right now. And I'm like, working on a napkin. And, you know, I had to figure, you know, but I got him the info he needed. And what I learned were some critical things that have been a theme in my career ever since. Number one, he never told me that his other lender, the one that he'd worked with, that took two years to earn his business, he never told me that that person was slacking, that they weren't calling back, that they weren't working weekends the way he expected, that they weren't, being as they were, taking him for granted almost. And because he never showed weakness to me as I prospected him, he never shared that. But what I learned later was he was super impressed by my consistency, that every time I showed up, proved to him that I was willing to work hard no matter what. And I built trust through that consistency over time. And then, boom, the whole thing snapped. And then I learned all this stuff that happened in hindsight. And for about five years, I did 30 million a year with Don. Don referred me about $30 million a year in production. I changed the course of my career forever. Because through him I got more introductions, I met different agents, I grew my business, my book expanded, and he was one of the best partners I've ever had and absolutely changed my life. And I learned that when you show up consistently, no matter what you think or who you think's watching, which is going to translate really interestingly into social. I know we're going to talk about social and video later, Mike, but like, no matter who you think is watching or listening or what, what kind of metrics you think you're getting, you know, the impact you're having over time is career and life changing. And so I used to hold campaigns when I was running large sales teams called Be There, where all we did was just focus on the activities of showing up. The prequels, the leads, the loans. That all comes later. But the first thing you have to do is you have to show up. And so that one experience with Don taught me a lifelong lesson. And it's, it's really been a foundation of how I play the game. Yeah. [00:07:08] Speaker A: And it's probably more subtle in social, but I've noticed the word come up a lot recently from very successful people that have had it throughout their career. And you look at em, you're like, how could you, how could this have happened to you? The new word imposter syndrome, where they feel like they're not like, not good enough. But it's interesting you talking, you know, with Don and then you end up earning his business and now two decades later, people like, oh, no wonder, look at all the, the ways he does hustle. So very cool story on consumer behavior. Always interests me. I have been very involved in technology. I feel the industry has gotten a lot different with how easy it is to run it through DU and, and, and Freddie Mac lp. And so the, the distance away from customers has changed. Maybe it's a tipping point, maybe it isn't. But can you talk about how you see the difference? In your early days, you were working out of a strip mall. I guess I'm saying, like, it kind of makes sense for something to go back there and get some foot traffic and get people back to where maybe they're, they're struggling a little bit more, figuring out DTIs and down payments and being in, in where they are. Can you talk about how that, how that helped you learn about customer behavior early on? [00:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that you have to be a student of the world around you, or I say the student of your own experience all full time. And so when my first job I was a receptionist in a strip mall next to a Whole Foods at a lender called Countrywide, which was gigantic. And I got $90 alone, plus my salary. And I stood at the front desk and I made sure people came in, they got directed, if they needed a loan, I, I helped them out. And that was the world I lived in. And then you look and fast forward and then, and then I went into the full belly to belly, you know, real estate referral business playbook on an OK phone. We had no social media. I had to find the open houses through the Realtor board and the papers on Saturday and Sunday. And like, you know, that's, that's how you had to figure it out. And then you fast forward into this massive digital world that has just swept through our culture and you look at the effects that Covid had when we were all forced to shelter at place, whatever that meant, and the digitization of relationships and how this whole world, like, I mean, we're doing a digital podcast, right? It's wild how the world just kept shifting and now you kind of, if you poke your head up and look around though, there's very interesting things that are happening. So for example, I'm watching in person lunch and learns branded differently, more contemporarily branded, but in person like first time home buyer seminars lunch and learns starting to take off in key markets by people who are leveraging digital marketing to introduce it to people but then coming together physically to have that interaction. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm not surprised, but I'm surprised in such a digital world to watch all these trends intertwine each other. And I don't think we're going back to a pure, pure physical world and you know, the digital's dead. That's far from the truth. I think AI and the world digital is going to be radically different. But humans still make decisions emotionally when it comes to such large transactions like real estate and finance. Yes, they get a lot of mental, like they get a lot of decisioning and they do a lot of deduction and they do a lot of mental work. But then the emotion side is really where the decision comes in and that, that's still a human thing. And so it's, it is fascinating watching consumer behavior change. I, I yell about this all the time on social media, trying to get people's attention to tell great originators that they have to get digital because that's where the attention is, that's where people are sitting and staring all day. But at the Same time, the reason that they have to go get that attention is back to the core, which is humans make decisions by their heart and their emotion. And if you're not connected with them, then they're not going to pick you or they don't even know you exist. [00:10:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it just amplifies the voice so much. So you know, your book bypassed a modern guide for local mortgage pros left behind by the digital customer. Maybe we're a little slow as a, as an industry, but everything you said in that book, I don't know how many years ago now it was eight or so. It. It's still a blueprint for if loan officers do just what worked in the past, the ones that use social, the ones that follow it, the way you say, the ones that read your book will realize it's. It's the ant. I think it's the amplification of what you just did after. Because the voice just keeps going and going can intertwine it. But when you talk about basics and how maybe lenders can get back to just simple training or training new, new hires. Can you just talk real quick? How was you were so. Your first boss or whoever was so disciplined, like learn. You got to learn to go get purchased business. Do not get anything else. I was in a call center and it was the opposite. They're like, if you pulled over 740, you have to give the lead to someone else. And it took five years later someone say what kind of company are you working for? So I think you had the, the faster track on get purchase business and then learn the rest. And which is all about building relationships, I think is what you were touching on. [00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean relationships are. Are the portal to the game. They're the long. The tool that's going to give you an any originator. The, the longevity in this space. You know, I was just training a bunch of loan officers yesterday on realtor relationships in, in. In this age. And of course it's different. There's new ways to meet them, new ways to engage. They're social, all these things. But relationships are still the key. And you build relationships through consistency, intentionality and frequency. Like if you and I talk every day, our relationship's going to go up. You know, if we talk two times a year, our relationship is diminished. It's a very interest, like understandable framework. And so I got lucky in the early days being coached and mentored in the right way, where I went out and built those relationships. But I'll tell you what really skyrocketed my success. So my first year originating at an 85 million. And you know, and that's what got me the. And by the way, it was, it was Mortgage Originator magazine before Scotsman bought it, by the way. So there's a little history for everybody. [00:12:57] Speaker A: Also, by the way, the average loan size was not what it is today. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, look, I was in Newport beach, in Costa Mesa and Santa Ana. So I had larger loan amounts, I had some ocean stuff, I had some multi million dollar loans. But look, it is what it is. It was the market I chose to work in. But what I'll say is one of the things that I found unbelievably amazing was when I, my first like three months, all I did was email and call the best originators I could find. And I just was like, hey Mike, you're a top guy. You've been doing it for 20 years. Can I, can I buy you coffee? Can I get on a phone call with you? Can you just tell me what you do? And I found that literally almost to the dime, everyone was willing to share exactly what they do to get business. Everyone. Nobody hid a truth for me. Nobody hid like a secret formula. Everyone was like, here's what I do, Absolutely. I'll give you my whole playbook. And I, I, I walked out in my first 390 days and had a, a mountain of ideas, tactics, strategies to pour through with people that were proven a hundred million dollar producers monsters in their own right, own their markets. And all I had to do was believe in them, that, that what they told me to do was right and then figure out how to put my own soul into it so that it was me in, in, in executing those actions. And that's how I dominated that first year. Was that just, I mean, obviously I have a really intense work ethic. You know, I worked every day, I was at broker previews on Open House every weekend. I was, I was young, I didn't have kids. So I just took advantage of that. And I was a monster. I worked from 8 to 5, which, I mean, I'm gonna get on my high horse for a sec, Mike, I'll tell you this funny story. So I was, my mentor was down in Mission Viejo in Orange county, but a new office was opening in Newport beach where I grew up. And so after my year, two years working with him as an assistant, I was like, look, I'm gonna go out on my own, but I'm gonna go to this new office. Cause that's actually where I was prospecting. There was no office here. A new one was opening up. So I, it was hard for me, but I left his leadership and I went to this new office and I'll tell you, the first day of the, of the new office opening up, I showed up at 8 o' clock ready to go, you know, in my dickies, in my little suit, like ready to rock. And no one, no one was there. So I was like, okay. I mean you know, it's, it's early, it's eight, you know, whatever. 8:15, 8:30, 8. No one's there. And I'm not going to call the new manager because I don't, I haven't met him yet and this is awkward. I'm not going to call anybody. So I'm just like, okay. And then like 10 o' clock bro. I'm sitting in the parking lot like, is that the guy? 10 o' clock, the guy rolls up and I, and I'm like, oh, awesome. Go up there. Hi, nice to meet you, I'm Alec. Great, nice to meet you. And then you know, every loan officers start cruising in and then at 3:30 I was in the first little mini office by the door on the way in. So I had my own office which was great, but I was like a mini tiny little like closet. But at like 3, 3:30 I watch all the loan officers leave. They're all leaving and I'm like 23 and I'm going. I, I just had this moment of like I am going to destroy all of these people. They have no chance. They work four hours a day now. By the way, I was immature. I realize now being a little older that yeah, yes, they could have been working earlier before coming into the office. A hundred percent, yes, they could have been going out to meet with realtors at 3 and going to hop, you know, golf and happy hour and networking. 100%. I didn't see that side of it yet. But I'll tell you, I am right. I am validated. After manage being 24 years in this industry and leading huge teams, there are so many loan officers who don't work a full hour, eight hour day. They don't do it, they don't put in time. I, I, it's not a, it's not a call out. It's just if you're willing to put the hours in, you can dominate the competition in this space. And so sorry to get on that tangent, but it just, it's one of those things that people don't realize how easy it can be to win in lending if you just work really hard. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Yeah, you touch on that a lot. And I would say the biggest takeaway or one of the biggest Alec Hansen isms that somebody could get listening to all of your work is profound sentence that these real estate agents working on the weekend, if they don't see you working, they assume you're having fun. And when you said that, I was like, wow, that is very powerful, bro. [00:17:04] Speaker B: It's so true. Because think about our own lives, right? We just, we, we're the, we're the main character of our own movie. And so we just see our life through our lens. And the reality is, is we're a frickin extra in the movie of somebody else's life. Like we're not, we're not, we're not the main character. So in their life, when you realize that what they're seeing, like if they're out there working and you're not, you're either. They're, they're probably not even thinking of you at all to begin with. You're probably just not even in their mind. But like if you're their guy, if you're their per. The referral partner and you're not around, what do they think you're doing? You know, they, they probably think you're not working because you're not where they are. And it's a subconscious thing that's so interesting and it's. And, but this is also where like the parallel to Social now is insane because now they can see me every day. So now I can prove to them that I'm hustling and working every day because they can visually see me in their feedback every day. And so I can build that rapport and that connection. Now whether they choose to like me or not is a whole different thing, right? That's. They might not like me, they might think I'm annoying. I can't fix that. But enough of them will realize and respect the hustle and respect the game and then, and then it's just rocket fuel to my prospecting efforts. It's crazy. [00:18:16] Speaker A: That's why being authentic is probably encouraged by everyone. Raw Video show yourself out at the charity event, the car wash on that Saturday that was 85. Don't try and be fake and have a, A yacht. And then they say, wait a minute, you were at the yacht while I was sitting at the. Like they could backfire, right? Like, people don't want that. So my. The person that works in our studio here just said that I love Alex. Camera quality. You have great camera quality. So it brings up the interesting point. This microphone here, I think you know this story and I don't know if I can get this in here and this. [00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah, baby. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Off of a 2019 show that you did where you gave advice on how to buy a microphone and then you gave advice on how to buy a. I don't know how great. The second part of the advice was like, you think you did everything. Yeah, I guess I knew what the price was, but that's more than the microphone. But I said, and you, you talked at the time how when the world, the world we're going, your voice is going. How it sounds is going to be as big a part of a branding as anything else. And I think you had a second show on lighting video. But I went out and bought this and I just wanted to talk. I guess this is where I'll let you go off on wherever you want. As far as the power of distribution of social media, how Gary Vee always talks just about how free it is and how billboards and media and what it used to cost just to get in front of people. But for these loan officers or, or Ross, whoever. When you think about the tail dis, the tail ripple effect of. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:46] Speaker A: Me getting this microphone. And now this is. We've now done two and a half straight years of the show, only missing two Thanksgiving Thursdays because we do it every Thursday. Done all with this microphone that you had me gone. And I don't know if I'd be motivated enough without. It's like some physical thing sitting here saying, you have one. Go do it. And so that's the power. I think of the ripple effect or the ample amplification. Any comments on where to begin? [00:20:11] Speaker B: So we all know, by the way, so my microphone is right here. Right. So I, trust me, I, I honor and respect the game. But here's my, here's my encouragement for everybody out there. And I, I, I saw it so fast in Covid land when we were on zooms and teams calls and all the video chats. I, I was like, oh, this is so obvious to me. Why aren't other people getting this? And so I've been yelling about it for a long time. What's up, Brian? And the, what I've been yelling about is we all know that impressions matter, like how you show up. Like, I mean, Mike, we've seen each other at several, you know, conferences, right? So like how you show up at these events, what you're wearing. Are you casual suit jacket? Are you, are you smiling at people? Are you engaging are, you know, are you sitting in the corner? Are you on your. How all these micro impressions create an impression of you that somebody's going to now judge you against. And I don't mean judge like in a bad way, but just that that's how they're going to. They're going to start to understand who you are by what they see. We know this as humans. Like, we have fight or flight responses. When you see someone down the street, you make a snap judgment. You can't help that. Your brain just makes things happen. So, oh my God, now we have to be on these digital platforms and people look like trash. And I don't mean trash like they look like they're in their jammies. I mean, like the camera angles up their nose. Their microphone sounds like they're in a bathroom stall. You know, the lights in their face and their, or their lights, their windows behind them so they're silhouetted and you can't see who they are. And I'm like, do you guys realize the impression you're making? And so I'm going to be really aggressive in this statement. You don't give a shit about how other about the person you're talking to because you've chosen to show up like a bum. And it's like, oh, I don't know. You chose this, you chose the angle of the camera, you chose the microphone, you chose everything. Now, you may have said, I didn't really think about it. That's even worse. That's like showing up to a meeting completely unprepared in your underwear. Like, are you out of your mind? So it's the these, the microphones that we invest in, the cameras that we buy, the mixing boards to make sure our sound comes through appropriately. All those things are intention. And it's a show of respect to somebody else of how you're showing up for them. You know, imagine, Mike, if I got on this show and I was walking, I had you on my phone in my car in my cup holder. You'd be like, alec gives zero craps about me. My phone is in his cup holder, looking up at him as he drives. I can't really hear him. He doesn't care. So I, I hope everyone hears this and is like, oh, I, I better make a different choice. And even at the, even at the companies we work with and the teams you're on, if you show up a certain way and your teammates are staring at you, your boss is staring at you, the CEO of your company staring at you, and you've showed up poorly. That's a major mistake. And so I don't want people to make that mistake. I want them to figure it out. So I'm super opinionated on this topic, as you can tell. Yeah. [00:23:02] Speaker A: And you have the longest blueprint, I think, of the most consistent. We'll say there were a couple that came before you, but I would say they're not as consistent now. And you've been able to show it in different roles through on. So it's a. It is a lasting story where there is a library of ways for people to. To learn. And you have really done that. Talk to the audience, help the audience, rather than talk at the audience is. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Well, yeah. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Do you do how far out, I guess, do you plan? Or are you driving around saying, that's a good idea, write it, and you write it down, then you make it later. [00:23:36] Speaker B: How? [00:23:37] Speaker A: Just take us into the mind of how improv it is versus how planned it is. [00:23:42] Speaker B: So there's a right and a wrong way to show up digitally, in my opinion, or there's an effective and ineffective way if you want to kind of be more politically correct in our language. So I think, Mike, you would resonate with this. I mean, you're. You're digitally active, you're on these platforms, you're talking to people and you got. I'm sure you see the same people I do, the ones that are all about themselves when they show up on a platform. All they do is talk about how great they are, how great their company is, or they try to do some version of a humble brag where they talk about this idea. But then back to how great I am or back to how great my company is, and it's kind of gross. Well, it's disingenuous and it's a turn off for a lot of people. Some might be attracted to that style. I'm personally not, and I feel like the majority of people are not. And so I speak out against it a little bit. So when I first got into video in 2018 and decided to use these platforms as a tool instead of as a, you know, a mind dump or, you know, a doom scroll, I did a hundred videos in 100 days straight to try to see if I could be consistent. And I had no. I had no strategy. I had. I just. I just. I would make a video. In fact, I had a T shirt rack next to me where I had like a bunch of different T shirts, and I would film a video, take off a T shirt, put it on, film another video. So I'D have my videos ready for next week so I could kind of batch my content. I learned about batching early on, but after the a hundred videos, I was like, man, that was pretty random. I didn't really, I didn't really have any purpose. And then I was like, oh, that's it. You need to have intention and purpose. And so mine has evolved, my strategies evolved, my style of content has evolved, but my purpose has always been grounded and foundational, which was I want to be in help to the people I'm trying to serve. If I'm, if I'm of help to the people I'm trying to serve, then I can, I'll be proud of myself and I'll, I'm doing what I believe I'm put on the earth to do. And so, you know, very rarely do I get caught in the trap of self promotion or of, you know, company promotion. You know, I'm not, I'm not perfect, but every time I put the camera on, I really try to do my best to go, is the piece of content I'm making right now, is my message right now going to be helpful for somebody? And if it is, then I let it rip. And so I tend to preach that heavily to originators, salespeople, executives. You know, go be in help to other people and you'll build a great community and you won't be toxic. [00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I think the way you do it, I will say is the best advice as well, that doesn't require a course. And then when there's a course, you're wondering what, what's the true intention or not? Because it is a course at the end of the day, but talking about other vendors that are not courses but are there to help partners, lender partners in our industry and help us as a podcast, continue to thrive. And we're always looking for more vendors to tell their story throughout our story, but we're going to take a quick commercial break. And the other side, I want to talk quickly that book Alec want to take your business to the next level? As a longtime trusted mortgage service provider, Mortgage Connect works with some of the largest lenders, servicers and institutional investors providing cutting edge solutions for everything from title closing, escrow and default to capital markets and risk solutions. Mortgage Connect brings it all to the table, redefining mortgage lending with innovative digital solutions that can elevate your bottom line. [00:27:19] Speaker C: It's time to use AI to revolutionize the way you do marketing in 2025. With ADM Intelligence, we have access to 5,000 consumer data points and proprietary AI technology that helps you understand who is in your database. What's the likelihood of people to do a real estate transaction and also who they are. So for example, someone who's 50% likely to transact the next six months, who's a home buyer, should receive very different content than someone who is, let's say not as likely to transact, that already owns a home. And of course our content team will provide you with all of that turnkey out of the box to market to everyone in your database. So to learn more, come find us at ICE if, if you're there, we're booth number 327 or go to our website thinkadium.com love to walk you through a custom demo of how AI can supercharge your marketing this year. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Thank you to our sponsors. I so the book also purchased I think through Covet, you had a video and you said download it and I, and I got it and I, I think I read 75 of it which was as far as I'll go on an audio, a non audio book. It's my own fault but I was fascinated throughout that you took everything I used to do when I was a local, not for that other company, I talked but when I finally got here locally and you made it much make more sense like, like it was being coached and then how you could apply it digitally which nobody really talked about and at it now and I think kind of what we just talked about, I think people do it but not with purpose. Like they don't, they don't check off all the boxes. Wouldn't hurt to go back and have a pen and go, go through that book. But can you talk just about how you took all the basics that got you to Scotsman 200 and was able to say yeah, you can digitalize all this and still be local. And then how has that changed today now where I guess market share is almost up for grabs again locally? [00:29:06] Speaker B: Yeah, you know I, I, I wrote the book because I told you that story of how these great originators just opened up their doors, let me come up there, ask questions and just poured into me and it, it radically affected my career. And so I was like well you know what I can do that I can help. Let me, let me take things that I think are really valuable that are, you know, that I've been talking about, that I share about that I kind of, you know, put out in my content, put it into a medium that people can digest and produce the book and you know it, I give away every single dollar that the book produces to Freedom alliance for our Veterans. So I make no money on the book, but it's, it's something I'm very proud of because it, it's, it's a legacy piece, right? It's a gift. It's, it's, it's what I want to give back to people that gave to me. So here's this thing and it's all, there's nothing hidden in it. There's no secret, you know, call for a mastermind or sign up for coaching. You know, it's just all there because I, I really believe when I wrote the book and I still believe this today, that the, the localized salesperson, so the loan officer in the street has significant opportunity but very, very real threats to their business that are coming at them with the change of the human, of our society, meaning our human, our, our, our behavior, consumer behavior. And as that behavior changes, if they don't change with it, they're going to have, they're going to lose their careers, they're going to lose their business, they're going to lose a chance to help people. And it's really hard, really hard for a centralized sales team to serve every local market. It's just, it's just, it's not impossible. But there's the local knowledge and the down payment assistance programs and it's just, it's just very difficult to have that level of granular education and wisdom in a centralized group to support all these different markets that are so unique. Plus, you know, working with real estate agents and being available on the weekends and all those things that like you have to do to kind of serve somebody who's buying and moving and all the chaos there, it's just very hard to do. But so I have a, I have a great love for the localized salesperson and a huge respect for the digital direct salespeople. It's just they're different animals and they're serving different people at times. But the localized person is at, they're, they're, they're, there's a massive threat against them and they have to figure out how to leverage modern consumer behavior to stay relevant. And that's as true as it was in 2018 as it is today. There's a massive grab for consumer attention. There's a ton of money being spent to try to influence consumer behavior and then drive people to certain websites or certain apps or certain things. And so to combat that in a relationship based game, people have to become influential. And I try to stay away from the word influencer. Because that has this total weird connotation to it. But man, you got to use the tools available to you to make your impact and stay relevant. And that is, that means you have to have a YouTube strategy, you have to have a social media strategy across the major player platforms, but you got to blend that with your local physical strategy. And that's really how you can protect yourself from the evolving consumer and the threats that are coming at you. [00:32:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I, that's what I've been saying in my content. When I'll drop something about those big new acquisition companies and I'll say this, I always say this, 42,000 something zip codes. And so if a loan officer could just think, I, they just need to win one zip code using the tools that you were talking about. Podcast out, podcast them. And then two words that I like to say, but really talk about what you talk about, which is outwork and outlast. And if you can do both of those, can you talk about maybe a little bit of the chapter, what's it, the legends of the community. Could you see how you can apply that to today's digital world and, and make somebody a legend in their community? [00:32:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean there's, there's so many ways. So this goes right back to like being a person of influence. You know, everyone likes to have a guy, you know, I got a guy, you know, group of friends, you know, I need, I need this. Well, I got a guy for you. Well, how do you become that guy or that gal, you know? Well, you become known and recognized and influential and become your own legend. And I found that you do that best by serving and connecting humans. And it's crazy when you, when you think about it that simplistically, it's not about I have to show up on every bus stop bench, which is, okay, maybe people think that I gotta be on the shopping carts at the Vons or the Ralphs or whatever. It's like, no, no, those things are if that makes. Gives you happiness and you find that to be fun, be fun and have fun. But what really makes people influential is when you connect and serve your community at large. And so like, let me just use podcasting as a funny example, Mike. It's one of my favorites that I, that I rarely see people do. There is nothing stopping a local mortgage pro from doing one podcast a month with a local business owner or charity in their marketplace that they care about and want to support. Nothing. I mean, you got phones that are, you got iPhones. You can buy some really cheap road Mics that can clip on, they go right into your iPhone. You can stuff it up on a, on a, on a little tripod and film in the restaurant and you can sit in the corner of the bar and talk to the restaurant owner about when they started, why they started this business, what's their favorite dish, what's their favorite drink, you know, did they survive Covid how they do it, you know, do they have locals, they have off menu things, you know, and just, just share this human story and then blast that human story out to your entire book of business to all the realtors and give the owner of that restaurant that story back for them to share with their community. In fact, if you really want to be crazy, start, you know, offer discount like a, you know, free drink on you for everyone that comes in of your past clients and buys a drink at this restaurant. That money that you might spend on the 15 or 20 or 30 people that might go to this restaurant now and put your name down and get a free drink that you pay for is marketing gold. Gold. That owner thinks you're the man you can, you know, the people that got the free drink on you love you and they're not going to forget you. That's 20 bucks on a cocktail. That's expensive, but that's a, that's a gold piece of marketing. And if you do a charity and restaurants and businesses around your community for 12, for 12 for a year and distribute those out and share them on social and give me the ownership. You're the mayor. You're going to be the mayor of your town in, in a year. Everyone's going to want you to come hang out with them. And so you want to talk about being a person of influence, you could do all that and I guarantee your business goes up by 30% without ever doing a commercial about how great you are as a loan officer and blah, blah, blah. Because now people like you, they know you and they, and they appreciate you. And now you win. Yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker A: And that you become a legend that way. Right. Like that's the big difference between. [00:35:27] Speaker B: And you just become super well known. You can the mayor your town. And now when they're like, oh, loans. Oh yeah, it's this Alec guy. Yeah, yeah, I see him all the time. You know, he's in the restaurants, he's in these small businesses, he promotes these things, he, he gives to these charities. Yeah, he's, he's the guy you got to call. He's the best. [00:35:42] Speaker A: I always say this shows for the aspiring loan officer, processor, underwriter, Maybe that hasn't gone to a national or say a housing wire, you know, getting to see. See you speak and tell them it's actually. You might have to go to two or three, but it's actually much more welcoming than you could ever imagine. In two ways. It's one of the largest industries like 6 trillion to whatever number you want to put on it in ways in the country we touch the most people put them into homes. Yet it feels very small pretty quickly when you start going. So if you can't go because you can't afford or you can't go I always say because you're too talented. So talented you're. They don't want to send you because you might get recruited. So we give away but we try to help like with three ways of career advancement. And since you have one of these unique art arcs that touches a lot of them, I guess I'll put on you any advice. I guess will be the question at the end. A top entrepreneur, because you said this is like the entrepreneur in a box, one of the best industries in the world is now the time do you think to try and own their zip code or like many want to own their own company or try and advance and own a occupation C level at a bigger company that maybe my point is all three pathways are actually easier than they think because there's so much advice out there that they could follow. Any that you think are are trending better than others right now? [00:37:01] Speaker B: Well, let me, let me answer it this way. One of the amazing things about real estate and mortgage finance and these industries is that it's a choose your own adventure book which you know, the young kids don't know what that is. But like you can come into a great IMB and be what people have labeled an intrapreneur and run your own business with the backing of a larger company, leverage their resources instead of having to build your own leverage the talent there to learn and educate yourself and get resources and radically jump your career to the next level. You can decide at any point, you know what, I'm out. I'm gonna start my own thing, man. You know, you look at the rise of the broker community today, which is very impressive, you know that because they're like they're empowered to go find their own destiny and figure out their own benefits and figure out how they're gonna do their own technology. And I've watched people come alive with that. That's where they're the most happy in their career at this moment and is either better than the other. It just depends on the person and who they are and what. And what phase of life they're in and what level of risk they want to take on for themselves. But. But really, the amazing part about this world is you get to choose. And there's so much opportunity on all sides. And if you want to, you know, run huge teams and get promoted in some large organizations or get into a C suite, if that's your goal, you can achieve it if you're willing to put in the effort and. And the connection, because today there's more access to humans than we've ever had. You know, you want to get the attention of a CEO, you can do it. You know, where before it was almost impossible, you had to call them and cold call them, and their admin would never let you talk to them. And, you know, you couldn't walk in there. Now you can tweet them. You know, it's. It's. You can meet them at these events. You can look up on LinkedIn and find it. It's amazing how you can build relationships at scale now, leveraging these tools, too. So I think the real thing is, don't live in regret. Figure out what you want to do and go after it. If you're trying to break through to the next level, call the people that you believe have broken through and ask them how they did it. Build digital relationships with the people that you're inspiring to become. Like, as long as they're not assholes. Figure that out first and then go learn. I mean, gosh, Mike, the access to human knowledge we have right now is insane. Just. Just YouTube. I mean, like, it's insane and it's not all right. A lot of it can be garbage. I get that. But in there, there's opportunity, and that's. We've never had this in American society and American business. We're at this amazing inflection point where you can just. You can make those connections and you can grow your business. [00:39:49] Speaker A: I mean, that really summed up this show. And. And I think, yeah, now's the time to be happy. Right. And there's more ways to figure that out. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah. It doesn't mean you're not going to have to work hard. The mortgage world is tough right now, man. It is brutal out there. There's so much dysfunction. No one knows what's happening with the rates and tariffs, and it's just a lot of uncertainty. Housing prices are still bananas. Inventory is a problem. There's a. There's a million things you can look at and be like, this sucks or there's a million things you can look at and go, I have never had an opportunity like this before. How do I capitalize on it? [00:40:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's how I look at it. I look at it like it's a long drought and there are people inside their homes getting big buckets and, and, and big. And the ones that are going to go out and catch all the next rainstorm are going to say I never knew it was this easy or I never knew it was this powerful. And then the person that's been complaining with a little thimble is going to wonder what happened one day. Like they, like they didn't see rain coming. Like it was never going to rain again. So I, I wanted to end with one of my favorite pieces you've put out recently. I said if I had a rainy day where I could actually slow down for a minute, I would just. This is my passion, just the industry. I would, I would watch all the episodes. So it's really something I've been wanting to do so bad. I think it's one of the best pieces of content I've seen a. More. I probably have seen a mortgage, but also it's what I like. Different people can like different things. And so you flew into these areas and you were able to see really these old school in their way, people in different regions. And I think the closer they are to your region, the more so. I saw you go into somebody from the east coast and he's like, hey, I don't know how you know people. I am the guy. You know, if you need a guy, you come. Me and your editing team did great. You like snap the finger, you get to the point but you really articulate not just what people have to do, but if they did nothing else except change their billboard on social, how much more I guess rain they could catch. Right. An example of this. Can you talk about maybe how you chose episode the person from episode one because he was. It was great or the perfect person that that would say this won't work for me. Then by the end was like, oh, this is going to work all the time. And then what made you go into others? Did you have a team behind you? These all your ideas like this is just anything you can tell and we'll obviously put the link to this because I think it's incredible. [00:42:08] Speaker B: Yeah, the brand new series was amazing in a lot of ways. You know, I try to do a big kind of directional social strategy apart from the snippets and things every Year. And so brand new was, was so fun. And so I, I would call up some originators that I love and care about and I would say, I'm gonna, I'm coming to your office. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, I'm gonna come for an entire day. Let's party. And you're right. I'd bring an entire film crew. I'd be there at 8am we'd shoot till 5. I mean, it was, it was a heavy day. And the whole day was spent around digging into personal brand, their personal brand, digging into their marketing and sales strategies, digging into their business plan and how they're running their operation, digging into their strategies, helping them step into things they weren't doing before. So like social media, if they weren't doing it, we'd film and, and talk about how to make videos and how to do content and how it fits their whole strategy. And it was a lot, ma' am. And you know, I, I wanted to pick different people at different moments in their careers because I wanted to cover enough humans where somebody could see themselves in that person. I mean, like, that's totally me. That's what I'm dealing with. Because what problem we all one of us have, you know, a lot of us have. And so, yeah, it was, it was so much fun. I learned personally a ton. I mean, I came in with an agenda, came with a plan, came in with, here's what we're going to go through the day. But then, you know, when you're talking to other human beings, stuff happens and you got to, you know, new things come up. But it was, it was incredible because. And here's why I did it, and here's why anyone should go watch it. My first boss who changed my life, that got me set in the right road for realtors, said another thing to me that I have wrestled with my entire career. He said to me, because I'd ask him, kevin, you're telling me everything that you, you do to be successful. I'm just copying it, plus adding in all the skills I learned from these other originators that took time with me and I'm killing it. I did 85 million. Why doesn't everyone just do this? I don't understand. I'm not special. I'm not better looking. Like, how did this, what happened here? And he told me this line. He goes, you can't change people, so change people. And what he was talking about, he's led people for a long time was you can't give Somebody, the fire in the belly. You can't give some. No matter how many trade secrets you share or ideas and tactics you share, you can't make someone go do them. And you're nodding your head, right, like you feel that, right? Like we can, we can pour into people so much, but they have to do it. Now when he said that to me, I laughed. And then I was stricken for a long time with it because it was so demoralizing. Because the root of that little quipism is that people can't change. And if that's the truth, then humanity's doomed. It's. It's over. You know, if we can't change as a, as a, as an individual, life is pretty crappy. Because I believe humans can change. I believe that that's one of the most powerful things about a human is their ability to actually change themselves and then their surroundings by who they become. So that cynicism was really difficult for me to hear. But I've led people throughout the years and there's truth in it. You can lead a horse to water, you can teach them all the tactics, you can spend time with them, you can love them, you can encourage them, you can therapize with them. But they still might not do it for a thousand reasons, but then something will happen and they, and, and they'll change. And sometimes it's you, sometimes it's you 20 years later and they just remember that Mike said something to me that I always hated, but now I'm finally going to do it. And it changed me. And so Brand New for me was a chance to go into the streets, sit down with originators, really get in their business, pull out all these great ideas, pull out all these concepts and solutions, and then see if people are willing to change. Because it's like the way I view it. Now, as we kind of wrap down here, Mike, any great leader who cares about people realizes that everything they do is just a seed. It's not. You're not saving someone from the pits of hell. You're just planting a seed. You're just saying like, maybe think about this. Maybe try this strategy. Well, I think you're good enough to do this. You should do this. I think that you're perfect for this. You should do this. It's just a seed. And over time, in the right person, those seeds will sprout and they'll see it in themselves and they'll change. But you gotta be happy planting seeds. And so for me, Brand New was all about the chance to plant seeds in people, to love on people. It was all about the chance to get into the street to really, like, talk to actual originators, not sit in the ivory tower, not get on, you know, not coach from, you know, zoom, but really, like, intentional one to one. And, you know, it was transformative for me. I got a lot of great learnings and I loved my time with all the people because they're all incredible. So, like Mike, the number two guy, the second brand new episode, this guy Barrett Catchian. I think Barrett closes like 800 million a year. He's fine. Like, he's. He's. He was number eight at Scotsman or seven this last year. Like, he has always been in the top 10, the last 10 years in Scotsman. He's a monster. And he doesn't do much video because it's. It's. To him, it's like, I don't really like it and I don't really know if I care. And, you know, and he's not. He's not at the end of his career. He's right in the heat of it. He's just. But, you know, he's so. So what? Like my brand new. Like, I didn't change his life. He's fine. But I have seen him now start to step out a little bit more. He's starting to put some more content out because I know that the more people fall in love with Barrett, the more his influence can spread. He already owns Hoboken in New Jersey, but what else could he own? He's that talented. So. Oh, and Eric loves the podcast idea. Yeah, man, take it. Take it and run. But that's my point of the Micah, this whole brand new thing, I hope it inspires somebody to listen to the life of some other great originator that they could look up to and then watch them figure out the new mediums, play with the new social tools, get on video, and they've never been there. Oh, thanks, Brian. Dude, that's really nice, man. But yeah, I mean, thank you for sharing that, Mike. I'd love more people to find the brand new series and fall in love with the process and learn because it's there. And trust me, they're meaty, man. They're. They're an hour and a half edited, and that's eight hours of filming. They're an hour and a half edited, and then there's the director's cut, which is like four and a half hours. If you want to, like, if you want to just experience the entire day with me and this person, buckle up. Bro, you can. You could be there with it. It's everything. It's every question, every mistake, every, you know, great idea, every bad idea. It's all there, man. Yeah. [00:49:00] Speaker A: Thank you for putting that out there. And I didn't even know we had the Director's Cut edition. And I'm. We're going to push everybody there. The biggest takeaway is that specific series, what you just said about change. And it's unfortunate, but change is necessary. People can change planting seeds a little bit at the time of a. People can change by planting seeds a little bit at a time. But the best way to change is to not always see the teacher teaching you, but see the other students and ones like you. And that's, I think, what that series does so well is you can go in viewing it from the perspective of somebody that matches up with you. You see in the mirror, you see them grow throughout the episode. And if they grow, it becomes contagious. Right. So thank you for putting that on. Thank you for joining us. [00:49:47] Speaker B: You're welcome. Great, dude. [00:49:48] Speaker A: And thank you to our audience for for joining us on this journey into the heart of mortgage innovation. So remember, every mortgage has a story. We were able to hear some great ones from beginning to where we are today, and we're here to help you write yours. So if you've enjoyed today's insights, please subscribe. We love our YouTube station, but if you're listening on any of the audio, please give it a like share with your network or connect with us on social media. And until next time, keep pushing the boundaries forward while we uncover the stories that drive our industry forward. Thank you for joining us on this journey into the heart of mortgage innovation. Remember, every mortgage has a story and we're here to help you write yours. If you enjoyed today's insights, please subscribe, share with your network and connect with us on social media. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries and uncovering the stories that drive our industry forward.