Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to season four of the Mic'd up show, where every mortgage has a story.
We are the ultimate hub where the hidden stories behind the mortgage industry come to life.
I am Michael Kelleher and good morning.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: To you all from California, I'm Michael Zao.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: And in every episode, we both together dive deep into the entrepreneurial spirit which our guest Kate has, the strategic insights which we will dive into with our guest Kate today, and the breakthrough innovations that build the world's greatest mortgage companies.
So whether you're advancing your career, which this show will cover, a lot of scouting for industry leaders and we found one, or exploring opportunities in fintech and prop tech, you're in the right place. So get ready to unlock the story behind every mortgage. Let's dive in with Kate Amore, who is executive vice president and head of enterprise products at Rate. So just to set the table here, as a technologist, product in technology is not always the same as product in mortgage. And Rate is, according to Scotsman's guide, I believe, the number two largest retail lender. But they are on stadiums. They have just like I always talked about, creating the mobile app in the mortgage space. I think they get credit for creating the first digital mortgage, you know, quick click online. So Rate is just a extremely, always been a forward company. Their president, newly named president Shant in my backyard here in Boston. Great. He's turned to a great motivational speaker.
Be sure to check him out. But this is about Kate today. Kate, before we dive in with the questions, just do you want to give the audience a 30 second like overview of what head of enterprise products is or more specifically maybe what it isn't? Like it isn't a technology product, right?
[00:01:56] Speaker C: Yeah. So I manage the product lifecycle for all of our financial products and our financial products are really how we monetize things and they function across an entire tech stack of digital products.
So we basically sit at the intersection of that higher, you know, product strategy, capital markets and then technology and then those customers and really weave that all together into a comprehensive plan that allows us to make money.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: I love it. And I think you'll see more products because it's the housing inventory is a problem right now. We need to get people into affordable housing.
It's been different markets that you've worked through, some with short supply of housing, some with larger supply. But every story starts somewhere. I was really curious doing the research here. You were on Laura Brendeo's show where she asks you your why you rocked it. But you talked about mentorship, which we Talk about on this show to get to the point, you talked about this wonderful human and all that he had done for you. And I was just curious if you could say the name and if not, maybe it was on purpose, like just the first time you met him and, and what that was like.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, I'm really privileged to have had a lot of different people invest in me throughout my career and, and one of the things that led me, you know, into wanting to be into leadership and really management was meeting my first, the person who hired me into that role and his name was Tim Smith. And this was at, you know, fifth, third, many, many moons ago.
And I have to say, like, leadership really for me went back to grade school where I got into a lot of different leadership training programs there. But it was really he who shared with me, you know, a shared vision of being able to create a space where we could empower people to make a difference.
And that was really at the very beginning of leader servitude, that was just starting to become a popular phrase.
And he exemplified that perspective and I thought it was so revolutionary at the time and it was just felt really reinforcing to meet another person who had the same vision and goal and like celebrated authenticity and being different.
A lot of people say that they do, but then when you're the one showing up different and being different, you know, who is your leader, really supporting you and giving you that time to be in the spotlight and encouraging, encouraging that. And he, he did all of those things and really set an amazing example for me.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Shout out to him. That's Tim, you said?
[00:04:42] Speaker C: Yeah, his name is Tim Smith.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: And you probably had a chance to be around him because it was, it was pre covered. I, I found your journey at the bank just so important for the listeners. I think we're in an instant gratification world where we believe now we can just go on LinkedIn and try and apply for the job we want versus a little bit of patience. Right. And it seems your career because you have a really cool job, whether it was when you were at Finance America here at rate like you're up on stage, but you got there through where many of our listeners are today, being a loan officer. So can you just talk about maybe that journey and do you remember a time when you realized it was not just a landing spot, you were starting to learn from Tim and from your elementary years and really leadership was going to become part of what you were.
[00:05:34] Speaker C: I think I've always been a bit of a natural leader to Be fair. And I will say that my first job out of college was as a loan officer. And then like the market fell out not too long after. So I took a job in what I'd like to refer to as the mailroom. And I went all the way back to post closing and I was cleaning up files and flipping through things so you know, that, that, that was real. And then I moved up from there into under.
And then I went from underwriting into working in credit policy and putting together, you know, all their different plans for correspondent, seller, guide and laying all of that out and really learning about risk and management and how, you know, to talk to executives and lead big meetings and cross functional leadership. It gave me a lot of exposure to that as well. Then they tapped me to go into running underwriting for the Central Regional Credit center and their consumer Direct group. And so that gave me wide span of managing underwriting and getting to see how that worked out, creating systems of organization to automate a lot of that, which is what I ended up doing.
And then from there they tapped me to go into product where I kept having all these ideas. I was like, lots of ideas and kept being like, it would be so cool if we just changed this product like this. We could do so much more of it. And so, um, you know, I just realized I was a builder and every one of those roles is building something. And so they moved me into product and I started building products.
And then I was recruited to go to Finance of America and build out their product group and, and built that and now came to rate and I'm able to do the same thing. And I, I realize how much I love building things, whether they're businesses I personally own or building them within, you know, corporate America. I thoroughly enjoy, you know, the process of creation.
[00:07:30] Speaker B: That's incredible because, you know, we're at the point right now where we get to see the fruits of your labor. Yeah, but whether it's a professional athlete or someone that's in, in your position, it takes a lot of patience and, and you've been able to build your career with patients, put in your time in your 30s and, and can you tell us about the type of calling that you have that and, and what your story is that could teach you or teach our listeners about patience, trajectory. So that for our listeners out there who want to go from point A to point B, have frustrated in their present moment, but want to build in that patient, can you tell us about that so that we can build more resilience in enjoying the process and of patience and building it to where you're at now.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: Oh, I love how you said you talking about like really enjoying the process and like having resilience. And I think those are two really important things that on my journey as a leader I have had to learn a lot of resilience. There have been ups and downs, right. There is some days I am winning, there is some days where I have not felt that way.
And it's really about holding space for the entire range of emotion and still holding in my mind the vision that I'm after and where I was going.
And I think a big piece about like how I got to where I am today is around doing the work on myself to really believe in myself and to like take that time to like go inward and to say like, hey, what's holding me back? And where are these little places and spaces that I can do better and have more self awareness about where I am and how I'm showing up.
Because as I've been able to do that and make those moves, it's given me that resilience, it's given me patience to say, you know, the more I ground myself in myself, I will eventually attract the right, I will attract the right opportunities that are meant for me.
And that's really important. Like when you try to force something, it doesn't work.
You end up like screaming into the void and you're trying to force and struggle and fight things and like that doesn't get you where you need to go. And on top of it, people then think you're difficult to work with or if it's not, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't, it doesn't come over well. And so when you, when you're able to center and find your center and get to a place where you're operating with integrity and confidence and calm, that opportunity, I'm telling you, is going to show up because what is for you is going to be for you.
It just is. Now you do have to take inspired action in the direction of that. But most of that is you versus you.
And that's the truth. We're really competing against ourselves, getting out of our own way.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a famous quote, really where you should really just be competing against yourself yesterday, today. Right.
Hopefully our listeners are inspired by your career path. I think it's just we have a lot of listeners and a lot of our show is about those that don't have access to conferences, get to hear from leaders and get to that point. And I think one Thing they could learn is you really need to understand the risk part of mortgage before you're allowed to build things and then you did it the right way.
There's a lot changing in building right now in mortgage. I think the old timers, none of us here, but the old timers love to point out, you know, that they always hear change, but then nothing really changed. So C told you so. Mortgage is hard to change, but something feels a little bit different. Like things are moving really fast these days with ChatGPT, GPT robotic processes. People are just dying to get AI in, even though maybe that's not here yet. But do you think this is the first time careers will be a little bit different in mortgage? Maybe the different type of roles or career paths.
Do you think for the first time, the next decade will be different? And what, could somebody position themselves today differently if that was the case?
[00:11:45] Speaker C: I fundamentally believe that the way that humans create value in society is changing, and it's changing with or without us. So, like, you can be over here in the old school, stay and be like, oh, I'm fighting all this and I'm not doing this, or you can embrace change.
Because what's really required to be successful at any level as an executive or as a person in general, is the ability to embrace change and realize that change is a constant state of being and that the people who are most successful are those that are going with the flow, learning, adapting, and trying new things.
So the biggest lesson I would say to anybody that's looking at starting out their career is learn to fail forward.
Because when you take a risk, you sit in that place where change is a constant, you're really saying yes to yourself and any opportunity that might come to you.
And that's the whole point of, like, being able to succeed. Like when we were talking about having patience and how opportunities can come to you when you get into the right state of mind. It's the same way here. Like when you sit in a place where you're always saying yes to new things, trying new things, and experimenting, you're really like, setting yourself up for success, in my opinion. And to be the biggest piece of advice is that change piece.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: So then what do you think might be the, the best culture to handle change and how do you build this? For example, if someone were to tell the story Little Red Riding Hood, and they go, oh, little Blue Riding Hood instead of is now running through the forest trying, trying to reach Uncle Tom's Cabin rather than Grandmother's Cabin, I was like, oh, the, the Story just changed. I don't know how to handle that. And so, you know. Yeah, so how, how do you build a culture? Especially now, you know, everyone's like, oh, 30 are fixed rate, best pricing. How do you build that culture so that they can handle the change?
And you could build it and then aspire for the success inside of that.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: So I think a big thing is being like a manager first and foremost and somebody who's responsible for people, because everyone wants to talk about leadership, and that's like the glamorous side, but then there's management. And that's actually the tactical side of where the rubber meets the road. And what truly defines success is one's ability to actually manage and effect change.
And so when we're talking about that and we're talking about people and being responsible for people, we have to create a place of psychological safety first and foremost. If we want to affect change within teams of people, and we want to create innovative ideas.
So people have to believe that they are safe to suggest new and challenging ideas. And that's how you're going to birth that change, like, through, like, say, a product organization.
And then if you want that change to be widely accepted and implemented, then you have to start to break it down into how that that change is going to provide an equal exchange of value to anyone else throughout that chain or process.
[00:14:44] Speaker D: Right.
[00:14:44] Speaker C: So you're going to present out your idea and talk to people about why it makes sense and why they should come on board. And the most successful changes, products, programs, I don't care what it is, it's all the same thing.
[00:14:56] Speaker D: Right?
[00:14:56] Speaker C: It's all change. At the end of the day, the most successful changes create an equal exchange of value in which people are able to understand that value and, and then apply that value into an ultimate, like, action item.
[00:15:10] Speaker D: Right.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: And that action item is people implementing the change, buying your product, using the product, learning to originate it, whatever that might be.
[00:15:19] Speaker D: Right.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: And so to me, that's the process that you have to touch on through in order to get people there.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: Wow.
That. Yeah, it's almost like the halftime of sports.
You want to go in the locker room, you want to redo your strategy for the second half. It's like we just whole second half asking more questions about management. That was. That was wonderful. It is going to be a real quick commercial break from our sponsors, and we're always looking in the mortgage industry for sponsors. We have the best guests, so it's a great chance to get in front of them.
If you're handling Change. There's obviously change with software. These three companies do it great. We'll have more questions for Kate after the quick break.
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[00:17:23] Speaker G: Company can do the configurability so we have no code on this so they can go in their settings, they can set it up all the way down to loan officer if they want to. We also have a customer support team that's assigned to each account if they want they can overhaul everything if they wanted to. They have a new product especially dynamic apps. With dynamic apps we can fit multiple we can fix the Fannie Freddie loans, we can new construction one time close HELOCs, you know whatever those workflows are they can design that workflow for each individual app.
So it's not a static app. And plus too is as they're answering those questions it'll ask them specifically what they need. So the borrower has everything at their fingertips right then and there. You know when a question gets answered certain documents are required and we have that engine that handles that. So if uploads directly into flow fi pushes it automatically into the los. If the loan officer they are able to set it up where it looks like if the processor needs something they can communicate as a team. So it looks like it's coming directly from the loan officer that they're already used to have that relationship with. So it's not somebody that they never talk to. Now what's going to take it to the next level is the AI and the OCR piece.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Thank you again to our sponsors. We would love more sponsors. The way to get them is our audience giving us more likes and subscribes, especially there on that YouTube station. We love Kate. We met at, in Dallas at a Housing Wire conference. I want to say it was in Dallas, it was the first or the second annual Housing Wire and you were up on stage speaking, I think on behalf of Finance of America at the time with a zillion employees from a mortgage perspective.
But I think you set the example of what this show is all about. I try to say I've been to 150 conferences and I if more people knew about them or had access and they don't, maybe it's money, maybe they're just so talented, you know, people are afraid to send them there. But you would run into people like yourself and you would find that you're actually as approachable as any executive out there. And it was just a cool moment to talk to you after in that side room.
You talk about inspiring respect and cooperation. I think that was an opportunity to see a little glimpse of it out of you there. But can you talk about your view of leadership servitude you mentioned a little bit earlier today, I think, and then leading with compassion?
[00:19:47] Speaker C: Absolutely.
I, I love this question because I think it really gets into what is at the heart of leadership. I think there's two different, you know, philosophies. At the end of the day, it's like service to self and then service to others.
And when we lead from service to others, we're able to really affect change and endure trust. And I think in order for us to really be able to embody that practice, it's important to operate with integrity.
And that operating with integrity comes from really showing up authentically as yourself and then offering integrity and having integrity in your relationships with others as well.
And so I think part of what's helped me, you know, get to where I'm at, right, which is in a role where I'm doing a lot of cross functional leadership and management is being able to show up in that way and, and operate on that level with all of the different leaders and people that I work with, including industry partners, so on and so forth. I think it's so important.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Can you tell us a Little bit about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and how to apply it in your job. You know, we're starting at the basic fundamentals into the very highest level of, of awareness so that, you know, we can create this type of application from just basic. I just need to survive to, hey, this is the highest level we can get to.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: I yeah. So like, I think is like and I this gets back into where we were going earlier, Mike, about management.
And like everybody in our society, the way society operates today has to have a job, right? Like we all work. We work for this exchange of money. The money is what we use to buy things. And that's all part of the way that we operate. And so like realizing everyone on your team is there because they have a fundamental need that they need to take care of their family and themselves, right? And when we create a safe space at work for people to show up and make that a positive environment where they're able to grow and flourish. If we can create that space for people, we're really allowing them an opportunity to be able to say, hey, do I, how can I self actualize myself?
You know, you're going to have people that show up and they're going to be steady, at ease, they're going to delete, they're like, I'm here, I'm doing my thing and that's it. And then you have other people who are like, you know what? I think I want to take this further.
I want to see where I can go as a person.
And when we do that, through having the courage to have like compassionate candor with people and help them manage their soft skills, have conversations with them, help them grow, provide them compassionate feedback, right? It feedback is compassionate when it's done correctly. I'm not talking about Those like crazy360 reviews that they used to happen 10 years ago, like, whatever. That was not that compassionately coaching and helping people, teaching them soft skills, helping them learn, giving them an opportunity where they can see like, oh, hey, this is how I'm showing up. And maybe I wouldn't show up that way if I understood how I was showing up or how it was perceived by others, right? And like helping people grow in that way and when we do that work on ourselves, because it always starts with ourself, right? You have to do that work on yourself. And when you're able to get to that point of self actualization in yourself, then you're able to then take that and teach that to others.
And so I think that's just the really Important part of being a good manager and being a good leader is like creating, holding the space, doing the work on yourself and all of those different pieces so that you can empower other people to show up and make those same decisions. Because at the end of the day, they have to, they have to choose that like your employees and people have to. You can't choose it for them.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: You can teach me here, Kate, as far as create a mortgage product, right. So I, I am curious. I talk to a lot of executives, but I don't get to dive deep into the fundamentals of this. So you find that your customer base is, has a blind spot. Let's say it's new gig economy and there's not enough mortgage product out there, so you're supposed to come up with it. Is that a team? So like, are you managing a team and everybody's doing a little, a little piece on the, on the line, like Santa's workshop, or is that usually just one person comes up with each product and as a team, it's five products. Take us inside the. The factory of coming up with a mortgage product and how it ends up in allowing somebody to buy a home.
[00:24:30] Speaker C: How mortgage product is born.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah, like, is it whiteboarded and like a cool story and fun, like a movie that we could typecast, or is it just math?
[00:24:41] Speaker C: Well, I think it depends on the product or the program, like the. What you're solving for. And so like, I think all good products start with a fundamental miss in the market or an opportunity, if you will.
And it's really about like identifying that need. And to me, that's usually some type of underserved customer, some new type of innovation, some new way of looking at how we can solve a old problem or like find a new way of looking at it. And so it'll start with some like, either it's an opportunity that you're seeing in data trending customers just, it could be anything, right? It's going to be the genesis. But let's pick gig workers, right? So like, ooh, these new things became into being a couple years ago where we suddenly have all these rise of 1099 employees, right? And it's like a side hustle, right? And so you start by looking at what are the overall characteristics of that cohort, that customer base, and what is it that they need.
And then you take it on the other side of it and say, how can I connect their need with capital?
Because products are connections, exchanges of equal value, right? And so that's when you start to go through the process of figuring out what are everyone's needs across this process. And you could call that R and D, you could call that like whatever you want to call that and go through that process of figuring that out. Sometimes it's on a whiteboard, sometimes it's I like to open up a nice crisp word document and start dumping my ideas in there as I think of it.
[00:26:11] Speaker D: Right.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: Or it could be a phone conversation where everyone's just ideating together and then that ends up ultimately turning into a wireframe.
You're able to take that wireframe, socialize it around. Everyone's like, yes, amazing idea. We do a cost benefit analysis on that. That's going to work. And then you go out and build it, right?
Build it, launch it, love it. And then spin, wash, repeat.
[00:26:35] Speaker D: Right.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So then how does someone in your world talk with the non financial side of business, which is the marketing side?
[00:26:43] Speaker C: Oh yeah.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: And as you're building out these new products, how do you talk to, you know, you're in finance world and then marketing world, two different sides. How do you guys communicate?
[00:26:52] Speaker C: Oh, it's so marketing is so important to product. I like the like you see analogy of marketing is like the fashion of product, right? Like so you're going to roll out a product but like marketing is going to dress it up, they're going to make it look beautiful, they're going to put it out there and they're going to help translate that to multiple different audiences so that you're able to communicate the value add of that product or program.
It's in my opinion super important to be in contact with your marketing partners throughout the process of launching products and programs and then afterward to talk about the value, how they're positioned and how they're functioning.
Super important. So I like to get with marketing early, have a strategic plan and sometimes marketing is also the source of some really cool ideas that we like to pull into product as well. So it's definitely an important relationship and, and definitely lots of cross pollination there.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: My co host Michael as Mike has some interesting ideas around home ownership and the balance sheet and the P and L. And is mortgage really debt or is it actually not? It's. But can you just take everything you've sort of said today, whether it's leadership, whether it's your years of studying product and diving into the minds of different types of homeowners and just tell us what it's kind of taught you about how consumers should be running their household today or maybe something that kind of makes you nervous about where affordability is heading and how, how it's possible to run a household.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: I think that debt can be an amazing instrument in wealth building. And I realize that's kind of a radical idea. But I, I do, I think when it's done appropriately, used with purpose and people understand, can be an amazing opportunity to create wealth that can also, like anything else, be something that could get you in a lot of trouble if you don't manage it appropriately. I think a lot of things in life are about understanding where the middle road is and managing things with balance because too much of anything becomes a problem.
[00:28:56] Speaker D: Right.
[00:28:57] Speaker C: And so how can you strategically use debt in order to accomplish your dreams in a way that makes sense because you took the time to understand the math and understand the value proposition of how you were using that money and that cash versus your cost of borrowing? Because it's really about arbing a situation from my perspective. But that's why I think like, it's important that we teach financial literacy to people earlier so more people can have this conversation with us and understand that.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I think it's interesting because money's not emotional, people are. And the spending or investing of money is just a physical manifestation of where we are emotionally.
Oh my God.
[00:29:38] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Right. And so when we have the willingness and availability to speak to our own self truth, then, then it, then as mortgage professionals, especially for you and product development, then we have the ability to create the manifestation for other people.
Because now we're, we're basically saying, here's the product. Please manifest what it is that you can accomplish. And with the help of the originator, you put out the product, the originator goes out and says, this is the product that we have. Please let's manifest that whatever you have going on emotionally, because they've invested themselves in saving, down payment, ownership, whatever, and now this is the product to take you to another level. As long as we have the right type of education and so those types of relationships is, is what helps build homeownership and it helps us build our careers as well. And you talk a lot about self, self awareness and leadership. But can, you know, and we want to help people in their life, but can you tell talk a little bit about building great careers. We recently had Deb Jones on our show and she spoke a lot about the Capital W cooperative last week.
What are some of the resources you believe a woman starting out should have in order for that for them to succeed?
[00:30:58] Speaker C: I think one of the most important things you can do for yourself is to really invest in yourself and take the time to believe in what you're capable of. I know, Michael, you were just talking about like manifestation and holding a vision for yourself. And I think that's so important. And I also think it's important to find a tribe of women and other people around you. I've had a lot of men actually help me in my career, but I've also found a lot of women that really support other women too and really find those people in order to help you get another view of yourself.
[00:31:36] Speaker D: Right.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: Because we were Talking about that 360 degrees earlier and that ability to have people give you compassionate candor on opportunities and to hold you accountable to being able to move forward. So I think all of that's really important. The most fundamental thing at the end of the day is investing in yourself to have the confidence to be able to take the right steps forward when the opportunity presents itself to you and not to get bogged down in fear or to get bogged down in like self sabotaging behavior. Because I think that's like the easiest thing to do to hold yourself back.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think your profession specifically had a lot of fear in it after the financial crisis. Right. Like building product before the crisis had some creative negative amortization, different ways to maybe get people into homes that were expensive and those don't exist anymore.
[00:32:27] Speaker C: Oh, it's still existing.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Well, they don't get publicized I guess the same way.
So. And I'm not, I'm not asking for your opinion on that, but I think it's my segue of saying, do you have a product mistake that you had to learn the hard way, whether it was the actual product itself or how it was marketed when it was released. And how has that shaped your thinking today in this large company you work with in a bigger magnifying glass on every product that comes out.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: I think it's really important to build products fast and to be in a place where you're able to work without all of the information at all times.
[00:33:11] Speaker D: Right.
[00:33:12] Speaker C: Like in order to be able to build a product you have to know that like the reality is 30% of them are going to fail.
Like this is statistically like 30% of them are going to fail.
[00:33:22] Speaker D: Right.
[00:33:23] Speaker C: And so you've got to take risk and move quickly with incomplete information and have the confidence to know you're going to figure it out as you go. And I'm not talking about taking credit risk building non compliant products or anything else. I'm talking about the freeze response that a person has where they feel like they have to have everything figured out before they can start moving forward on something.
And so to me, the biggest mistake I see people making product is thinking they have to have everything figured out in order to move forward.
Now, do you need to understand, like, how you're gonna, at the highest level, how you're gonna get something done? Yes.
But having the confidence to know that you'll figure it out as you go, I think is critical. And then understanding there's gonna be an acceptable failure rate of like you're gonna hit some issue that stops you from being able to do it. And it doesn't matter. You still tried and got to that point to figure that out. Like, so chasing perfectionism, there is no perfectionism. There is no having all of the information.
And you'll never be able to control all of the variables necessary to get something out because that's straight up an illusion. So lean in, dive in, figure it out, get your hands dirty, and the chips are going to fall where they may. It's either going to sink or swim and just be okay with that.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: That's interesting. Well then, with homeownership being becoming increasing complex nowadays, is there one product or policy you wish existed to help families build wealth? Smarter than.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: I would love to see more financial literacy taught to people in grade school and in college. I, I don't see where we teach people financial literacy. We teach them about history, we teach them how to work in a corporation, we teach them how to like, yeah, but we don't teach people financial literacy. And I am surprised by how many people don't understand effective interest rates, don't understand things like loan constants, don't understand basic principles of cash flow and like why businesses fail or why people go bankrupt and like, what causes that. And so to me, teaching financial literacy is key and something that I think is really important.
And I think when people really should take control of their destiny in this and learn these things, because when you learn them, it sets you free of getting backed into a situation where maybe you're not managing your debt appropriately. As a borrower, which to me, you know, is an industry, I want to see people succeed. I want to see them create their dreams.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: I think that in order to be able to teach that at the grade school level, I think teach, for example, you don't go to a 10 year old, hey, let me tell you what EBITDA is, or let me tell you what the IRR is or ARV or all these whatever terms it's really like we have and We've mentioned this earlier today.
It's about managing those types of emotions. How do you teach someone to manage those emotions so they can make effective decisions as a 10 year old, a 9 year, 11 year old, because they're going to be investing in those decision making capabilities. And when you learn how to manage those, then it's possible to create that type of future for financial literacy. So then with that being said on managing emotions or whatever, how do you mentor younger professionals who want to fast forward their career and in, in their path of either mortgage or fintech?
[00:36:46] Speaker C: Ooh, I love how you turn that into managing emotions. That is like such an important thing, right? Like managing emotions. And there's so many different ways of that. Like, first and foremost, I think I'm gonna just say it. I think mindfulness is really important, making time for mindfulness. And part of mindfulness is holding space for your emotions, not stuffing them down, like learning to make peace with that.
So I'm going to just, I think that's like a really important leadership skill, 100% and like it's something we don't talk about enough and it's something we should teach people when they're children.
And I think when we get to that place where we're managing good emotions and we're coming from a wealth mindset versus a lack mindset, I think those types of things make a really big difference. And so to me, I think one of the most important things to do for yourself if you want to fast track your career, is to examine where you may have limiting beliefs in your life and learn to let those go.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: That was a mic drop comment about, about limiting beliefs. I, I love that.
[00:37:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Managing limiting beliefs and learning them to let them go. Limiting beliefs can be anything. They can be a story you're telling yourself. There's something maybe you've learned from your family or your friends.
It's something you're repeating that you were taught as a child. I want to remind everyone we're born like little blank computers, little babies, blank computers. And then we learn a bunch of stuff during these formative years because we're blank.
And then that is the programming then starts running, right? And then you pick stuff up along the way and then you turn into this adult and suddenly you're like, why am I doing this? This thing that's holding me back and it's this little limiting belief over here. The story that's running in the background that's telling you something that is simply not true. And I promise you, any place in your life that you're running into resistance or that isn't flowing the way you want it to be is because there's a little limiting belief hiding in there that you gotta dig out. So the number one thing you can do to move yourself forward faster is to look at those, assess those, have compassion for them, write them out, assess them and let those babies go.
[00:38:57] Speaker A: I hope, Yeah, I hope our listeners, if nothing else, can walk away from this with one less limiting belief. That would be a really cool get out of, out of this. In fact, this whole interview has been really cool. So thank you, Kate, again, for joining us. We really appreciate it and I think there's just so much depth here. So thank you again.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:39:20] Speaker E: Thank you for joining us on this journey into the heart of mortgage innovation.
Remember, every mortgage has a story, and.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: We'Re here to help you write yours.
[00:39:30] Speaker E: If you enjoyed today's insights, please subscribe, share with your network and connect with us on social media.
Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries and uncovering the stories that drive our industry forward.
[00:39:45] Speaker C: It.
